Within Orb
WITHIN ORB: A podcast featuring interviews with astrologers about the books that changed their lives and practice. Join host Dr Jenn Zahrt every Monday for a new conversation. Each (roughly) thirty minute episode takes you on a journey across the textual territories of astrological publishing, both historical and future. Along the way, you’ll gather insights into the shifting sands of astrological trends, techniques, and the proliferation of practices and praxis. Each episode ends with the guest’s recommendations of books for beginners. Be careful, your tsundoku pile is about to double, or even quadruple!
Episodes

3 days ago
3 days ago
Astrologer Michelle Craft joins host Jenn Zahrt from Alameda, California! Join the two for a chat covering traditional astrology and more, including: a method-based, interactive way to make judgements; tracking the profection lord between the nativity and the solar return; and dispelling myths about Mesopotamian culture. Plus: medal-winning planetary extremes, considering the firdaria periods, and deus ex machina tropes!
Visit CAELi’s Within Orb pod page!
Learn more about the CAELi Institute and check out their latest lab offerings.
Visit our bookshop.org page to support CAELi and purchase books mentioned on the show!
Become a CAELi member or renew your membership!
Love the show? Support our work with a financial contribution or book donation.
Follow CAELi on FB, IG, YouTube, and Bluesky.
Transcripts available upon request.
Song “Wake Up” used with permission by The E-Block Band.
*****
Episode timestamps (conversation recorded March 2025):
00:12 – Michelle Craft is a swimmer and astrologer living in Alameda, California. She primarily uses Medieval Islamicate techniques and Hellenistic traditions in her practice. Michelle especially loves to engage with predictive astrology. She has given talks for the Association of Young Astrologers and the San Francisco Astrological Society.
01:27 – Michelle’s first astrology book was Sun Signs by Linda Goodman.
04:56 – If Michelle could bring only three books to a deserted island, her first pick would be Abu Ali Al-Khayyat’s The Judgments of Nativities, translated by James H. Holden.
09:18 – Michelle’s second choice would be Abu Ma’shar’s Persian Nativities IV: On the Revolutions of the Years of Nativities, translated by Benjamin Dykes.
11:31 – Interlude: Join the CAELi Support Drive and for only $35, you can enjoy your morning beverage out of a gorgeous CAELi mug!
13:37 – The third title Michelle would bring is The Heavenly Writing: Divination, Horoscopy, and Astronomy in Mesopotamian Culture by Francesca Rochberg.
20:55 – For beginners, Michelle recommends On the Heavenly Spheres by Helena Avelar and Luis Campos Ribeiro, Hellenistic Astrology: The Study of Fate and Fortune by Chris Brennan, You Were Born for This: Astrology for Radical Self-Acceptance by Chani Nicholas, and Mastering Traditional Astrology: A Depth of Beginning in the Celestial Art by Mychal Bryan.
24:12 – Find Michelle at her website: https://www.soulhealingwithmichelle.com/. On Instagram and Bluesky, her handle is @crystalsoulheal.
27:20 – Thanks for listening to Within Orb! If you love the show, please help support it at no cost to you: Follow or subscribe wherever you listen, rate it five stars, or write a happy review! And if you’d like to become a CAELi member or support our work with a contribution of any amount, we’d be delighted – thanks!
Show notes and production by Jen Braun of JJ Boots Productions LLC.

Monday Jun 02, 2025
092 | Catherine Urban: Fashion, Families, & the Forgotten Key(s)!
Monday Jun 02, 2025
Monday Jun 02, 2025
Astrologer, teacher, and author Catherine Urban joins host Jenn Zahrt from Ohio! Enjoy this cheerful gabfest covering astrology books and more, including: blending traditional and modern techniques; temperament theory; the building blocks of the universe; kids and family chart patterns; and planetary cycles through the ages. Plus: astrology and costume design, annuals versus perennials, and… our birth charts are not random!
Visit CAELi’s Within Orb pod page!
Learn more about the CAELi Institute and check out the latest lab offerings.
Visit our bookshop.org page to support CAELi and purchase books mentioned on the show!
Become a CAELi member or renew your membership!
Love the show? Support our work with a financial contribution or book donation.
Follow CAELi on FB, IG, YouTube, and Bluesky.
Transcripts available upon request.
Song “Wake Up” used with permission by The E-Block Band.
*****
Episode timestamps (conversation recorded April 2025):
00:12 – Catherine Urban (NCGR-PAA IV, ISAR-CAP) has been immersed in astrology for over 15 years. Her practice is steeped in classical, medieval, natal, and horary technique, centering compassion for human experience. Specializing in solar returns and forecasting, Catherine empowers her clients to become alchemists of their own charts while gaining confidence and clarity on their path. Catherine is an astrology teacher, a mama of two, and the author of Your Astrological Cookbook: The Perfect Recipe for Every Sign. She offers weekly forecasts on Instagram and YouTube!
01:41 – Catherine’s gateway into astrology was the horoscope columns in Teen Beat magazine! But her first astrology book was Astrology: A Cosmic Science by Isabel Hickey.
03:25 – If Catherine could bring only three books to a deserted island, her first pick would be The Great Introduction to the Science of the Judgments of the Stars by Abū Ma'shar. (And in the runner-up category, she mentions Temperament: Astrology's Forgotten Key by Dorian Gieseler Greenbaum.)
08:45 – Catherine’s second choice would be Saturn and Melancholy: Studies in the History of Natural Philosophy, Religion, and Art by Raymond Klibansky, Erwin Panofsky, and Fritz Saxl.
15:58 – The third title Catherine would bring is The Astrology of Family Dynamics by Erin Sullivan.
21:12 – Interlude: Join the CAELi Support Drive and for only $35, you can enjoy your morning beverage out of a gorgeous CAELi mug!
21:58 – More on children, birth charts, and (birth, chosen, and adoptive) familes!
29:29 – Catherine recommends The Great Introduction by Abū Ma'shar for intermediate students and Cycles of Becoming: The Planetary Pattern of Growth by Alexander Ruperti for beginners.
33:14 – Find Catherine at her website: https://www.catherineurban.com/. On Instagram and YouTube, her handle is @astrocatherine, and on BlueSky it’s @astrocatherine1.
34:44 – Thanks for listening to Within Orb! If you love the show, please help support it at no cost to you: Follow or subscribe wherever you listen, rate it five stars, or write a happy review! And if you’d like to become a CAELi member or support our work with a contribution of any amount, we’d be delighted – thanks!
Show notes and production by Jen Braun of JJ Boots Productions LLC.

Monday May 26, 2025
091 | Frank Clifford: Data Impresario
Monday May 26, 2025
Monday May 26, 2025
The inimitable astrologer, author, publisher, and teacher Frank Clifford joins host Jenn Zahrt from London for our second podiversary!! Make a cuppa and join the duo for a fun episode filled with books, personal stories (The Mountain Astrologer! Tad Mann! Steven Forrest! Lois Rodden! Solar Fire! Melanie Reinhart!), and more, including: devouring data texts; navigating astrological politics; selecting the name for the Astro-Databank; deets on the London School of Astrology; correcting misleading online astro info; and books for the thinking astrologer! All that, plus: hand reading, Mars on the Midheaven, and… what do you want your legacy to be??
Visit CAELi’s Within Orb pod page!
Learn more about the CAELi Institute and check out their latest lab offerings.
Visit our bookshop.org page to support CAELi and purchase books mentioned on the show!
Become a CAELi member or renew your membership!
Love the show? Support our work with a financial contribution or book donation.
Follow CAELi on FB, IG, YouTube, and Bluesky.
Transcripts available upon request.
Song “Wake Up” used with permission by The E-Block Band.
*****
Episode timestamps (conversation recorded April 2025):
00:01 – Happy birthday, Within Orb!
01:12 – Frank Clifford has built an eclectic, 35-year career as the writer of a dozen books, a consultant astrologer and palmist, a publisher/editor, a researcher of birth data, and the Principal of the London School of Astrology, which has branches in China and Japan. In 2012, he was the youngest recipient of a lifetime honour from the Astrological Association for his contribution to astrology, and a writing award from ISAR and various ISAR and Regulus Award (UAC) nominations have since followed. In mid-2025 he is relaunching The Mountain Astrologer magazine as a multi-media publication.
03:59 – Frank’s first astrology books included two from Linda Goodman (Sun Signs and Relationship Signs), texts by Bernard Fitzwalter, and Derek and Julia Parker’s The Compleat Astrologer.
08:11 – If Frank could bring only three books to a henge in northern Scotland, his first pick would be Profiles of Women: A Collection of Astrological Biographies by Lois Rodden.
11:34 – Can you work in the remote location? You betcha! Bringing an editing pencil, Frank’s second and third choices would be his very own British Entertainers: The Astrological Profiles and The Book of Music Horoscopes.
13:16 – Interlude: Join the CAELi Support Drive and for only $35, you can enjoy your morning beverage out of a gorgeous CAELi mug!
14:02 – Frank shares his experience creating data books!
17:47 – Hear about the London School of Astrology, home to 14,000 students!
18:51 – For beginners, Frank’s top three recommendations are: The Contemporary Astrologer's Handbook: An In-Depth Guide to Interpreting Your Horoscope by Sue Tompkins, The Knot of Time: Astrology and Female Experience by Lindsay River and Sally Gillespie, and Cosmic Loom: The New Science of Astrology by Dennis Elwell. But a hat tip also goes to Astrology in the Year Zero by Garry Phillipson (once published by Frank’s own Flare Publications and soon to be released by the Sophia Centre Press!) and True as the Stars Above: Adventures in Modern Astrology by Neil Spencer.
26:34 – Find Frank at The London School of Astrology website: https://www.londonschoolofastrology.com/.
29:28 – Thanks for listening to Within Orb! If you love the show, please help support it at no cost to you: Follow or subscribe wherever you listen, rate it five stars, or write a happy review! And if you’d like to become a CAELi member or support our work with a contribution of any amount, we’d be delighted – thanks!
Show notes and production by Jen Braun of JJ Boots Productions LLC.

Monday May 19, 2025
090 | Jessica Irene: Stewards of Fortune
Monday May 19, 2025
Monday May 19, 2025
Astrologer and librarian Jessica Irene joins host Jenn Zahrt from Washington, DC! Pull up a chair and lend your ears to this convo covering books and more, including: the human experience as a vehicle of the divine; tarot and astrology; the Lunar Mansions; and comparative philosophy. Plus: moving away from atheism, Mercury crafts, and the taxonomy of astrology texts!
Visit CAELi’s Within Orb pod page!
Learn more about the CAELi Institute and check out their latest lab offerings.
Visit our bookshop.org page to support CAELi and purchase books mentioned on the show!
Become a CAELi member or renew your membership!
Love the show? Support our work with a financial contribution or book donation.
Follow CAELi on FB, IG, YouTube, and Bluesky.
Transcripts available upon request.
Song “Wake Up” used with permission by The E-Block Band.
*****
Episode timestamps (conversation recorded March 2025):
00:12 – Jessica Irene is a Washington, DC-based astrologer and has been providing consultations for four years following her formal studies with Nightlight Astrology School. Jessica has been a writer-contributor to the CHANI astrology app and has presented for both Nightlight Astrology School, OPA, AYA and AFAN. Astrology, for her, is a means to intimacy with a living, divine world. Apart from astrology and other esoteric things, she works full-time as a librarian in digital preservation, enjoys bodybuilding, and lots of sunlight.
00:36 – Jessica’s first astrology book was Parkers’ Astrology by Julia Parker and Derek Parker.
04:18 – If Jessica could bring only three books to a deserted island, her first pick would be The Archetypical Universe: Astrological Patterns in Human Culture, Thought, Emotion and Dreams by Renn Butler.
05:22 – Jessica’s second choice would be The Game of Saturn: Decoding the Sola-Busca tarrochi by Peter Mark Adams.
12:03 – Interlude: Join the CAELi Support Drive and for only $35, you can enjoy your morning beverage out of a gorgeous CAELi mug!
12:50 – The third title Jessica would bring is Procession of the Night Theatre: An Exposition on the Lunar Stations by J.M. Hamade.
17:25 – Runner-up texts include: The Shape of Ancient Thought: Comparative Studies in Greek and Indian Philosophies by Thomas McEvilley; Nietzsche, Heidegger, and Daoist Thought: Crossing Paths In-Between by Katrin Froese; and the coffee table book Fortune: “All Is But Fortune” by Leslie Thomson and produced in conjunction with an exhibition at the Folger Shakespeare Library.
27:00 – For beginners, Jessica recommends Butler’s formerly mentioned The Archetypical Universe, Ancient Astrology in Theory and Practice: A Manual of Traditional Techniques by Demetra George, and You Were Born For This: Astrology for Radical Self-Acceptance by Chani Nicholas.
29:02 – Find Jessica at her website: https://www.dendraletheia.com/. On socials, her handle is @dendraletheia.
29:33 – Thanks for listening to Within Orb! If you love the show, please help support it at no cost to you: Follow or subscribe wherever you listen, rate it five stars, or write a happy review! And if you’d like to become a CAELi member or support our work with a contribution of any amount, we’d be delighted – thanks!
Show notes and production by Jen Braun of JJ Boots Productions LLC.

Monday May 12, 2025
089 | Dorje Kirsten: Retrocasting & Lived Experience
Monday May 12, 2025
Monday May 12, 2025
Astrologer Dorje Kirsten joins host Jenn Zahrt from Portland, Oregon! Join the two for this rich and lively chat covering books and more, including: the lineage of soul chart conversations; the elegant solution of a divinatory method; triplicity rulerships; and pondering the elements! Plus: growing up surrounded by astrology books, Mars and stubbing your toe, and black swan astrology!
Visit CAELi’s Within Orb pod page!
Learn more about the CAELi Institute and check out their latest lab offerings.
Visit our bookshop.org page to support CAELi and purchase books mentioned on the show!
Become a CAELi member or renew your membership!
Love the show? Support our work with a financial contribution or book donation.
Follow CAELi on FB, IG, YouTube, and Bluesky.
Transcripts available upon request.
Song “Wake Up” used with permission by The E-Block Band.
*****
Episode timestamps (conversation recorded April 2025):
00:12 – Dorje Kirsten is a professional astrologer who lives in Portland, Oregon with his wife and children. He has been reading charts professionally since 2006. Before that time, he spent 12 years learning meditation and rituals at Chagdud Gonpa Foundation, a Tibetan Buddhist Retreat center, as a full-time volunteer and retreatant. Dorje is also a Tea Master, software engineer, and 32º Mason. He is training under the OPA counseling astrology certification process. A few of the astrologers he has studied with are Kay Taylor and Bernadette Brady, who received certificates of accomplishment from the Astro Logos medieval astrology school and Predictive Astrology school, and he studied Greek astrology with Joseph Crane.
00:32 – Dorje’s first astrology book was Astrology, Karma, and Transformation: The Inner Dimensions of the Birth Chart by Stephan Arroyo.
06:56 – If Dorje could bring only three books to Cannon Beach rock, his first pick would be The Moment of Astrology: Origins in Divination by Geoffrey Cornelius.
17:49 – Dorje’s second choice would be the Book of Astronomy by Guido Bonatti.
19:51 – Interlude: Join the CAELi Support Drive and for only $35, you can enjoy your morning beverage out of a gorgeous CAELi mug!
23:10 – The third title Dorje would bring is Steven Forrest’s series on the elements (The Book of Fire, The Book of Earth, The Book of Air, and The Book of Water).
33:37 – For beginners, Dorje recommends The Inner Sky by Steven Forrest and Predictive Astrology: The Eagle and the Lark by Bernadette Brady.
38:51 – Find Dorje at his website: https://heartastrology.com/. On Bluesky, his handle is @heartastrology. On Instagram, he’s @heartastrology168.
39:46 – Thanks for listening to Within Orb! If you love the show, please help support it at no cost to you: Follow or subscribe wherever you listen, rate it five stars, or write a happy review! And if you’d like to become a CAELi member or support our work with a contribution of any amount, we’d be delighted – thanks!
Show notes and production by Jen Braun of JJ Boots Productions LLC.

Monday May 05, 2025
088 | andrea michelle haeckel: Learning to See in the Dark
Monday May 05, 2025
Monday May 05, 2025
Astrologer and teacher andrea michelle haeckel joins host Jenn Zahrt from Edmonds, WA to chat about her upcoming Ceres Symposium, books, and more! Join the pair as they cover lots of territory, including: suffering versus struggle; the decans; the feminine way of knowing; considering Chiron and the Moon; sussing out the signs; and the relational field of cycles. All that, plus: photonic underworld sea creatures, the medicine that brings us back home, and the gastronomical with the astronomical!
Visit CAELi’s Within Orb pod page!
Learn more about the CAELi Institute and check out their latest lab offerings.
Visit our bookshop.org page to support CAELi and purchase books mentioned on the show!
Become a CAELi member or renew your membership!
Love the show? Support our work with a financial contribution or book donation.
Follow CAELi on FB, IG, YouTube, and Bluesky.
Transcripts available upon request.
Song “Wake Up” used with permission by The E-Block Band.
*****
Episode timestamps (conversation recorded April 2025):
00:12 – andrea michelle is a professional consulting astrologer supporting clients to map and gently merge the safety structures of their Self-Identity with the deepest desires of their Soul. One of her current areas of focus is experientially re-wilding ourselves through our instinctual wisdom or what she calls our ‘panconsciousness’ – the layers of our Being that root us to Earth and the wisdom of her cycles, processes and reciprocal networks of interwoven relationships of all sentient life. She’s presented for the Sky Astrology Conference, the Cosmic Intelligence Agency, and was also a teacher for Astrology Hub’s Inner Circle in 2022 and 2024. She’s noted for her fresh, empowering work with the feminine asteroids and incorporates the Living Sky into her astrology through heliacal cycles (Planet-Sun cycles), as well as considering the vertical dimensions of planets via latitude and declination.
00:39 – andrea michelle’s first astrology book was Saturn: A New Look at an Old Devil by Liz Greene.
02:49 – If andrea michelle could bring only three books to a deserted island, her first pick would be 36 Faces: The History, Astrology and Magic of the Decans by Austin Coppock.
06:44 – andrea michelle’s second choice would be Inside Planets by Ellias Lonsdale.
11:03 – Interlude: Join the CAELi Support Drive and for only $35, you can enjoy your morning beverage out of a gorgeous CAELi mug!
11:49 – The third title andrea michelle would bring is An Astrological Triptych by Dane Rudhyar.
20:45 – For beginners, andrea michelle recommends Cycles of Becoming: The Planetary Pattern of Growth by Alexander Ruperti and The Light of Venus: Embracing Our Deeper Feminine, Empowering Our Shared Future by Adam Gainsburg.
27:36 – Learn about andrea michelle’s upcoming virtual Ceres Symposium on June 14-15, 2025!
31:55 – Find andrea michelle at her website: https://andreamichellehaeckel.com/.
32:08 – Thanks for listening to Within Orb! If you love the show, please help support it at no cost to you: Follow or subscribe wherever you listen, rate it five stars, or write a happy review! And if you’d like to become a CAELi member or support our work with a contribution of any amount, we’d be delighted – thanks!
Show notes and production by Jen Braun of JJ Boots Productions LLC.

Monday Apr 28, 2025
087 | Kristin Mathis: Orphic Boot Camp!
Monday Apr 28, 2025
Monday Apr 28, 2025
Scholar and translator Kristin Mathis joins host Jenn Zahrt from the Big Apple! Enjoy this unique and insightful episode with one of the world’s foremost experts on the Orphic Hymns! Tune in for a deep chat covering lots of terrain, including: the deets on Orpheus; pondering the mystery traditions; preserving and translating the archaic Greek understanding of the cosmos; and the profound idea that living in a human body may limit our ability to perceive what we already are! Plus: a Kevin Bacon moment, weaving together the cosmos, and… what do ancient Egyptian texts have to do with baboons singing?
Visit CAELi’s Within Orb pod page!
Learn more about the CAELi Institute and check out their latest lab offerings.
Visit our bookshop.org page to support CAELi and purchase books mentioned on the show!
Become a CAELi member or renew your membership!
Love the show? Support our work with a financial contribution or book donation.
Follow CAELi on FB, IG, YouTube, and Bluesky.
Transcripts available upon request.
Song “Wake Up” used with permission by The E-Block Band.
*****
Episode timestamps (conversation recorded March 2025):
00:12 – Kristin Mathis is a translator and scholar of ancient Mediterranean religions and esoterica. Her current Mysteria Mundi project aims to re-translate the ancient Greek Orphic Hymns, making the esoteric content hidden in the original Greek wordplay accessible to a modern lay audience. The Orphic Hymns, which predate the development of Hellenistic astrology by several centuries, form a critical link between the Bronze Age astral temple traditions of Egypt, Babylonia, and Phoenicia, and all subsequent “Western” esoteric traditions, from Greek to Roman to Islamicate and beyond. Kristin resides in Brooklyn, NY, with her son, two cats, and way too many books and herbs.
00:52 – Kristin’s first book about astrology (that she came across in her research) was a catalogue of Thrasyllus’s library in the CCAG (Catalogus Codicum Astrologorum Graecorum)!
06:09 – If Kristin could bring only three books to a deserted island, her first pick would be The Orphic Hymns, translated by Gabriella Ricciardelli!
07:45 – Kristin’s second choice would be the gargantuan two-tome Greek-English Lexicon by Henry George Liddell and Robert Scott.
09:00 – The third title Kristin would bring is The Fragments of Sappho (in Greek)! For an English version, she suggests the one translated by Anne Carson.
09:26 – Interlude: Join the CAELi Support Drive and for only $35, you can enjoy your morning beverage out of a gorgeous CAELi mug! And be sure to check out our upcoming labs and summer camps!
10:13 – Enjoy Kristin and Jenn’s in-depth discussion of the Orphic Hymns!
36:24 – The books that Kristin recommends for diving into the scholarship about these cosmologies and astrologies are When They Severed Earth from Sky by Elizabeth Wayland Barber and Paul T. Barber and Echoes of the Ancient Skies: The Astronomy of Lost Civilizations by E. C. Krupp. (She also mentions Hamlet’s Mill by Giorgio de Santillana and Hertha von Dechend.)
42:09 – Find Kristin at her Substack: https://mysteriamundi.substack.com/. On Bluesky, her handle is @kristinmathis.bsky.social.
42:52 – Thanks for listening to Within Orb! If you love the show, please help support it at no cost to you: Follow or subscribe wherever you listen, rate it five stars, or write a happy review! And if you’d like to become a CAELi member or support our work with a contribution of any amount, we’d be delighted – thanks!
Show notes and production by Jen Braun of JJ Boots Productions LLC.

Monday Apr 21, 2025
086 | Patrick Watson: Radical Starry Intimations
Monday Apr 21, 2025
Monday Apr 21, 2025
Astrologer Patrick Watson joins host Jenn Zahrt from Michigan! Join the pair for this jam-packed episode, covering tons of terrain, including: encouraging a broader awareness of the cosmic rhythms; zodiacal releasing and when to switch the lots; the unique skill of superforecasters; considering retrogrades as wilding and extroverted; and don’t forget latitude! All that, plus: kimchi for Mars in Cancer, an astrological big brother and a paper nephew, and… is the clock looking back at us??
Visit CAELi’s Within Orb pod page!
Learn more about the CAELi Institute and check out their latest lab offerings.
Visit our bookshop.org page to support CAELi and purchase books mentioned on the show!
Become a CAELi member or renew your membership!
Love the show? Support our work with a financial contribution or book donation.
Follow CAELi on FB, IG, YouTube, and Bluesky.
Transcripts available upon request.
Song “Wake Up” used with permission by The E-Block Band.
*****
Episode timestamps (conversation recorded March 2025):
00:31 – Patrick Watson has studied astrology since his teens. He is a certified professional astrologer, specializing in traditional and modern predictive techniques. He has broad proficiency in natal, electional, horary and mundane astrology, as well as rectification. He has consulted over 2000 clients in his work as a professional astrologer. He has been featured on The Astrology Podcast, The Washington Post, ABC News, The Wall Street Journal and Vox. His research interests include Hellenistic timelord systems, synodic cycles, election prediction, financial astrology and astrological applications of AI. He currently serves as CAPISAR President. He co-founded Thema Mundi Technologies, which is developing the new astrology software Nechepso.
00:35 – Patrick read his first astrology book as a teen, pulling it from his mother’s bookshelf! It was The Astrologer's Handbook by Frances Sakoian and Louis Acker. And a shout-out to the horoscopes in The Reader's Digest, which he read at age 7!
05:02 – If Patrick could bring only three books to a deserted island, his first pick would be Cosmos and Psyche: Intimations of a New World View by Richard Tarnas.
14:34 – Patrick’s second choice would be Hellenistic Astrology: The Study of Fate and Fortune by Chris Brennan.
17:49 – Interlude: Join the CAELi Support Drive and for only $35, you can enjoy your morning beverage out of a gorgeous CAELi mug!
18:36 – The third title Patrick would bring is The Anthology by Vettius Valens.
30:39 – Honorable mentions go to Ancient Astrology in Theory and Practice: A Manual of Traditional Techniques by Demetra George and Superforecasting: The Art and Science of Prediction by Dan Gardner and Philip Tetlock.
39:12 – Why did the chicken cross the road? Tune in! For beginners, Patrick recommends You Were Born For This: Astrology for Radical Self-Acceptance by Chani Nicholas. And lend your ears to the delightful story about The Only Astrology Book You'll Ever Need by Joanna Martine Woolfolk.
42:20 – Find Patrick at his website: https://patrickwatsonastrology.com/. On most social media, he is @pwatsonastro. And Nechepso will be available May 28, 2025!
44:29 – Thanks for listening to Within Orb! If you love the show, please help support it at no cost to you: Follow or subscribe wherever you listen, rate it five stars, or write a happy review! And if you’d like to become a CAELi member or support our work with a contribution of any amount, we’d be delighted – thanks!
Show notes and production by Jen Braun of JJ Boots Productions LLC.

Meet your host!
Jenn Zahrt PhD is an author, artist, publisher, poet, translator, and teacher of cultural astronomy and astrology. She researches the many forms of astrology emergent across human cultures past and present, with a special focus on early twentieth century German culture.
In 2012 she completed her doctoral thesis, The Astrological Imaginary in Early Twentieth Century Germany, at the University of California, Berkeley. From 2017–2022 she was appointed as an Honorary Research Fellow at the Sophia Centre for the Study of Cosmology in Culture at the University of Wales Trinity Saint David, after receiving her MA in Cultural Astronomy and Astrology (2015).
She has taught and lectured domestically and internationally in places such as Canada, the United Kingdom, and Germany. She’s an emerita of the board of trustees for Kepler College, as well as the Association for Young Astrologers. Her volunteer work for the community continues with her 2023 appointment as a Board Director for the International Society for Astrological Research (ISAR).
Zahrt is the founder of Revelore Press, the creative director of the Sophia Centre Press, and the deputy editor of the peer-reviewed journal Culture and Cosmos. In 2021 she founded the Celestial Arts Education Library Institute in Olympia, WA, where she currently lives.

Celestial Arts Education Library Institute
CAELi is a global, virtual community with a brick & mortar base of operations and a deep passion for studying astrology, cosmology, and starlore in its many forms.
Located in the ancestral land of the Coast Salish people, the Nisqually and Cowlitz tribes, CAELi was founded as a member-supported, non-circulating research library in 2021. As a cultural institute, your membership supports essential research, critical conversations, and accessible workspaces for the astrological community.
Onsite and virtual members can access thousands of books, journals, and newsletters, some of which can only be found in a handful of locations throughout the world. We encourage our members to explore new realms of celestial arts research.
Thank you for joining us – we’re delighted to have you within orb!