Within Orb
WITHIN ORB: A podcast featuring interviews with astrologers about the books that changed their lives and practice. Join host Dr Jenn Zahrt every Monday for a new conversation. Each (roughly) thirty minute episode takes you on a journey across the textual territories of astrological publishing, both historical and future. Along the way, you’ll gather insights into the shifting sands of astrological trends, techniques, and the proliferation of practices and praxis. Each episode ends with the guest’s recommendations of books for beginners. Be careful, your tsundoku pile is about to double, or even quadruple!
Episodes

Monday Nov 20, 2023
020 | Gary Lorentzen: Astro-History, Language, & Measuring Time
Monday Nov 20, 2023
Monday Nov 20, 2023
Astrologer, teacher, and historian Gary Lorentzen joins host Jenn Zahrt in this sweet reunion episode: Gary was Jenn’s first astrology teacher in high school! Join the warmth as Gary and Jenn chat about must-know books, archetypal shifts in history, the intersection of synchronicity and physics, the four humors, humanistic psychological approaches, the eight phases in progressions, the Barbault index, and more. Plus: humans as meaning-making creatures; measuring time vs. marking time; and… can you guess what the least lucrative form of astrology is?
View full show notes at our Within Orb pod page!
Learn more about the CAELi Institute.
Visit our bookshop.org page to support CAELi and purchase books mentioned on the show!
Become a CAELi member or renew your membership!
Love the show? Support our work with a financial contribution or book donation.
Follow CAELi on FB, IG, and YouTube.
Transcripts available upon request.
Song “Wake Up” used with permission by The E-Block Band.
*****
Episode timestamps (conversation recorded June 2023):
00:31 – Gary has been studying astrology since 1972. He takes not only a psychological approach to interpretation, but also focuses on what he dubs “astro-history” (the mundane studies of history and geopolitics). He’s an educator who is trained as a historian, with a graduate degree in Medieval Germanic Linguistics. Gary was one of the original founders of Kepler College, and helped to develop the curriculum for Kepler’s bachelor program. He also served as president of the Washington State and Oregon Astrological Associations.
00:48 – Gary remembers initially buying two astrology books back in the day. First up: Dane Rudhyar’s The Astrology of Personality, which gave Gary a practical way of looking at astrology and observing its applications. He also purchased Marc Edmund Jones’s Astrology: How and Why It Works; this one is a wonderful, and challenging, philosophical text. (And did Gary write the date and time he bought these texts on the inside covers? Yes, he did – a budding astrologer for sure!)
04:46 – What other books changed Gary’s astrology life? Three Books on Life by Marsilio Ficino, who basically did modern psychological astrology in the 15th century! In this text, Gary sees the intellectual threads that led to Rudhyar and humanistic psychology. Also, the tome Cosmos and Psyche: Intimations of a New World View by Richard Tarnas makes the list.
14:16 – Gary explains how he became an astro-historian, which differs from mundane astrology.
15:27 – Interlude: Join CAELi’s inaugural annual support campaign and snag yourself a Saturn stress ball. (Yes, you read that right!)
16:13 – The books that helped Gary develop his practice with astro-history include: Planetary Cycles: Mundane Astrology by André Barbault; The Book of World Horoscopes by Nick Campion; and Cycles of Becoming by Alexander Ruperti. (Included is a lovely side trip to Cosmobiology: The Engine of Destiny by Marc Robertson, where Gary gives an elegant description of the eight phases of any two planets in the progressed chart.)
25:14 – For beginners, Gary would recommend something formulaic, like Joanne Wickenburg’s The Spiral of Life: Unlocking Your Potential With Astrology. This one offers a great foundation!
28:38 – Find Gary at his site: http://garylorentzen.com/. And check out the blog post he references, Planetary Pairs and the Aspects in the Eight Phases of their Synodic Cycles.
30:10 – Thanks for listening to Within Orb! If you love the show, please help support it at no cost to you: Follow or subscribe wherever you listen, rate it five stars, or write a happy review! And if you’d like to become a CAELi member or support our work with a contribution of any amount, we’d be delighted – thanks!
Show notes by Jen Braun, JJ Boots Productions LLC.

Monday Nov 13, 2023
019 | Jenny Montgomery: Time, Fate, & Choice
Monday Nov 13, 2023
Monday Nov 13, 2023
Astrologer, artist, and academic Jenny Montgomery sits down with host Jenn Zahrt from Missoula, Montana to chat about books (both real and imagined!) and more: correspondences, primary directions, archetypes, archaic instincts, synchronicity, zodiacal releasing, and Neptune remediation. Plus: conjuring up a graphic novel for Project Hindsight, walking the Prague zodiac, and… are a plethora of Jennifers the secret to the universe??
View full show notes at our Within Orb pod page!
Learn more about the CAELi Institute.
Visit our bookshop.org page to support CAELi and purchase books mentioned on the show!
Become a CAELi member or renew your membership!
Love the show? Support our work with a financial contribution or book donation.
Follow CAELi on FB, IG, and YouTube.
Transcripts available upon request.
Song “Wake Up” used with permission by The E-Block Band.
*****
Episode timestamps (conversation recorded Oct. 2023):
00:31 – As a graduate student at Columbia University, Jenny focused on the history of esoteric sciences in the medieval Greco-Arab world. She then traveled on a Fulbright-Hayes Dissertation Research Fellowship to study in Cairo, Istanbul, and Oxford for her PhD thesis, which examined the relationship between Greek and Arabic astrology as practiced by the 11th century Egyptian physician Ali Ibn Ridwan.
01:31 – The first astrology book that Jenny read was a colorful, illustrated kid-friendly book from the 1970s! Unfortunately, she no longer has that exact book, but a similarly delightful one would be Heaven on Earth by Fritz Wegner. (Tabs we can pull? A pop-up with wheels that spin? Count us in!) Another that was influential was Ali Ibn Ridwan’s commentary on Ptolemy’s Tetrabiblos.
07:04 – If Jenny were going to a remote place, which three books would she bring? Waving a magic wand, she would love to conjure up a text that doesn’t exist: the book on astrology that C. G. Jung would have written had he not been embarrassed to talk about it! Enjoy the side trip to Liz Greene’s two-volume Jung’s Studies in Astrology and Clare Martin’s Alchemy: The Soul of Astrology.
12:24 – Interlude: Join CAELi’s inaugural annual support campaign and snag yourself a Saturn stress ball. (Yes, you read that right!)
13:10 – Jenny’s second selection also arrives on the imaginary bus: the unwritten books by Robert Schmidt of Project Hindsight. Currently, Robert’s work is in hard-to-find audio form. Time, philosophy, and wonderful idiosyncratic theories all take the stage here.
16:52 – Jenny’s final pick is a deep dive into the intriguing city of Prague, which is laid out according to the zodiac! Check out Praga Mysteriosa: The Secret of the Prague Solstice by Milan Spurek. Take a trip to Prague and walk your birth chart! (Hat tip to Michal Maryška, who will soon release a series of books about the Prague zodiac.)
20:28 – For beginners, Jenny recommends: the previously mentioned Heaven on Earth; Rex Bill’s The Rulership Book (with bonus points for Jenn’s mention of The Book of Rulerships by Lee Lehman); Key Words for Astrology by Hajo Banzhaf and Anna Haebler; and Sun Sign, Moon Sign: Discover the Personality Secrets of the 144 Sun-Moon Combinations by Charles Harvey and Suzi Harvey.
24:54 – Jenny's website is: http://www.jenny-montgomery.com/.
25:28 – Thanks for listening to Within Orb! If you love the show, please help support it at no cost to you: Follow or subscribe wherever you listen, rate it five stars, or write a happy review! And if you’d like to become a CAELi member or support our work with a contribution of any amount, we’d be delighted – thanks!
Show notes by Jen Braun, JJ Boots Productions LLC.

Monday Nov 06, 2023
018 | SJ Anderson: Unleashing the Infinite Depths of Astrology
Monday Nov 06, 2023
Monday Nov 06, 2023
Astrologer and writer SJ Anderson joins host Jenn Zahrt from Albania! SJ and Jenn get within orb, offering a fascinating book chat and more: from dispositor trees, to Jupiter cycles that lead to new relationships and careers, to confirmation bias, to Mars and Venus synodic phase returns, to calling in our celestial birthright. All that, plus: the planetization of consciousness, the times it might be appropriate to toss astrology in the junker, and… you’re a beautiful time slice, doncha know!
View full show notes at our Within Orb pod page!
Learn more about the CAELi Institute.
Visit our bookshop.org page to support CAELi and purchase books mentioned on the show!
Become a CAELi member or renew your membership!
Love the show? Support our work with a financial contribution or book donation.
Follow CAELi on FB, IG, and YouTube.
Transcripts available upon request.
Song “Wake Up” used with permission by The E-Block Band.
*****
Episode timestamps (conversation recorded July 2023):
00:31 – SJ Anderson went down the rabbit hole of astrology after meeting Jenn! He’d previously studied the esoteric and occult world of tarot. Check out SJ’s popular X channel and YouTube channel for more.
02:33 – SJ’s first astrology book was really 40 astrology books! (Hats off to public libraries everywhere!)
07:34 – One title that does stand out from back in the day, though, is Kevin Burk’s Astrology: Understanding the Birth Chart. SJ loved how this book taught him rulership. Also, drawing his dispositor tree helped him to see his chart in a whole new way; it’s still essential to how he does his work.
10:44 – SJ’s desert island picks include two ancient texts: Vettius Valens’s Anthology (books 1 and 2 in the series), as well as reading by Ptolemy. And…
11:52 – … let’s break down SJ’s third selection, New Mansions for New Men. In this book, author Dane Rudhyar ties together the ancient ways of thinking with the challenges of the modern world. SJ found Rudhyar’s distillation of the planets and houses helpful, and appreciates his writing style.
22:08 – Visit our sponsor: The AstroMagia Online Conference hosted by JD Kelley (November 16-18, 2023)!
34:43 – If someone were crushing on astrology as a newbie, what books would SJ recommend? For sure the previously mentioned Astrology: Understanding the Birth Chart by Burk. Also, Traditional Astrology for Today: An Introduction by Benjamin Dykes, which is a small book and a great primer on traditional core concepts. Finally, Demetra George’s Astrology and the Authentic Self: Integrating Traditional and Modern Astrology to Uncover the Essence of the Birth Chart, which offers useful personal application.
37:58 – Thanks for listening to Within Orb! If you love the show, please help support it at no cost to you: Follow or subscribe wherever you listen, rate it five stars, or write a happy review! And if you’d like to become a CAELi member or support our work with a contribution of any amount, we’d be delighted – thanks!
Show notes by Jen Braun, JJ Boots Productions LLC.

Monday Oct 30, 2023
017 | Rory Keys: An Aural Spritz of Talismanic Graffiti
Monday Oct 30, 2023
Monday Oct 30, 2023
Astrologer and mage Rory Keys joins host Jenn Zahrt to share the astrology books he’d use to get off a desert island (clever info on fishing spots, scorpion repellant, and boat construction included)! Throwing down the astrological gauntlet, Rory and Jenn cover substantial ground: traditional and medieval astrology; electing by the last aspect of the Moon; planetary hours; several timing and forecasting techniques; hermetic lots, bound lords, and beyond! Plus: 100-year-old book shops, the decans, and… can we really profect from anything?
View full show notes at our Within Orb pod page!
Learn more about the CAELi Institute.
Visit our bookshop.org page to support CAELi and purchase books mentioned on the show!
Become a CAELi member or renew your membership!
Love the show? Support our work with a financial contribution or book donation.
Follow CAELi on FB, IG, and YouTube.
Transcripts available upon request.
Song “Wake Up” used with permission by The E-Block Band.
*****
Episode timestamps (conversation recorded July 2023):
00:31 – Rory joins us from London, where he loves to study the revival of traditional astrological techniques and innovations from the Hellenistic era.
00:48 – We jump right in! What was the first astrology book that landed in Rory’s hands? Astrologickal Magick by Estelle Daniels, which offers an excellent introduction to astrology and a hilarious writing style. He also appreciates that Estelle shares info on planetary hours and the last aspect of the Moon. (Side trip to Austin Coppock’s 36 Faces included at no extra charge!)
10:07 – Rory has put serious thought into how to get off a desert island using only three astrology books! His first selection, which presents oodles of reading material, is Vettius Valens’s epic tome The Anthology. Lots of hidden treasure here!
21:02 – Visit our sponsor: The AstroMagia Online Conference hosted by JD Kelley (November 16-18, 2023)!
22:01 – Want to have access to primo fishing spots, as well as scorpion-repelling help? Then dig into Rory’s next selection, the Picatrix: A Medieval Treatise on Astral Magic translated by Dan Attrell and David Porreca.
23:34 – Finally, to construct a boat – and for practical purposes – Rory will bring along Benjamin Dykes’s English translation of 'Umar al-Tabarī’s Arabic translation of a Persian translation of Dorotheus of Sidon’s poetic treatise on ancient astrology Carmen Astrologicum, originally penned in Greek verse in the first century AD. (It’s ok! We’ll give you a second to catch your breath!)
26:59 – What books would Rory suggest to a beginner? Definitely Astrologickal Magick, because there are treats in there not found elsewhere in a single text. For a focus on Hellenistic astrology, check out Chris Brennan’s Hellenistic Astrology: The Study of Fate and Fortune. (Bonus? It’s so big you can build a shelter with it!) The previously mentioned, out-of-print 36 Faces offers a unique perspective on the decans of the zodiac, if you can find a copy! Finally, take a dive into The Great Introduction to the Science of the Judgments of the Stars by Abū Maʿshar Jaʿfar ibn Muḥammad, translated by Benjamin Dykes. This last one has wonderful footnotes and presents tons of great info!
38:07 – To learn more about Rory or schedule a consultation, visit his website.
38:40 – Thanks for listening to Within Orb! If you love the show, please help support it at no cost to you: Follow or subscribe wherever you listen, rate it five stars, or write a happy review! And if you’d like to become a CAELi member or support our work with a contribution of any amount, we’d be delighted – thanks!
Show notes by Jen Braun, JJ Boots Productions LLC.

Monday Oct 23, 2023
016 | Stormie Grace: Living Alive & Dying Alive
Monday Oct 23, 2023
Monday Oct 23, 2023
Astrologer and digital nomad Stormie Grace joins host Jenn Zahrt this week for a deep and heartfelt chat! This wise-yet-practical episode offers meaningful books, soul stories that touch on inner life, and food for thought on embracing the grief and gratitude that arrive in the season of shedding and rebirth. Plus: Go through it, don’t get through it; How to embrace our secondary progressed lunation cycle; and… What do Indiana Jones and puppy feet have in common?
View full show notes at our Within Orb pod page!
Learn more about the CAELi Institute.
Visit our bookshop.org page to support CAELi and purchase books mentioned on the show!
Become a CAELi member or renew your membership!
Love the show? Support our work with a financial contribution or book donation.
Follow CAELi on FB, IG, and YouTube.
Transcripts available upon request.
Song “Wake Up” used with permission by The E-Block Band.
*****
Episode timestamps (conversation recorded July 2023):
00:31 – Stormie joins us from Sevilla, Spain, where delicious tapas and snacks await!
01:22 – We start with an awakening: One of Stormie’s first connections to astrology happened while she read the horoscopes in the back of Teen magazine back in the day! And during her first Saturn square, the astrology available at a metaphysical fair felt like… a remembering.
04:50 – The first astrology book that Stormie read was by Jan Spiller and was a homecoming of sorts. All of Jan’s books speak to her, but tune in for this fascinating conversation about Jan’s Astrology for the Soul, which explains the driving forces of the Lunar Nodes. Great example using the Cancer North Node (and Capricorn South Node, natch) included!!
14:29 – Visit our sponsor: The AstroMagia Online Conference hosted by JD Kelley (November 16-18, 2023)!
15:27 – There was only one astrology book that made it into Stormie’s carry-on while moving to Spain, and it’s her first pick: Finding Our Way Through the Dark by Demetra George. This one speaks to Stormie about how the shape of light that you reflect shows up in the world. It also prods us to be comfortable in talking about death; we are of nature, after all. (And tune in for a profoundly thoughtful convo about the secondary progressed New Moon! #ImNotCryingYoureCrying)
26:18 – Kindles count! Stormie’s next selection is The Book of the Moon: Discovering Astrology’s Lost Dimension by Steven Forrest, because it helps us tune in to the motivations and safety features that folks need. Love the concrete Lunar-Land examples, quiche and all!
31:39 – Finally, one more choice from astro-wizard Steven Forrest: The Inner Sky: How to Make Wiser Choices for a More Fulfilling Life. Stormie finds meaning in Evolutionary Astrology, and she loves the way Steven breaks down how to do the work.
32:33 – Where would Stormie point a new astrology student? First, start where it’s free! There are lots of helpful podcasts and YouTube videos available, so do some exploration. But in terms of books, Stormie recommends The Inner Sky or Astrology for Dummies – both of which would increase the astrological literacy of the public.
34:18 – Thanks for listening to Within Orb! If you love the show, please help support it at no cost to you: Follow or subscribe wherever you listen, rate it five stars, or write a happy review! And if you’d like to become a CAELi member or support our work with a contribution of any amount, we’d be delighted – thanks!
Show notes by Jen Braun, JJ Boots Productions LLC.

Monday Oct 16, 2023
015 | Lars Panaro: Scattering Karmic Stardust
Monday Oct 16, 2023
Monday Oct 16, 2023
Astrologer and musician Lars Panaro sits down with CAELi’s founder, Jenn Zahrt, for a wide-ranging chat: from astrology and music, to flipping the zodiac, to cookbook delineations, to Dorotheus’s sibling technique, to Mars and theology (do they go together?), to hope and lack as two sides of the same coin. All that, plus: the Lot of Absence, being in the trenches, and… are we all being hazed by the past??
View full show notes at our Within Orb pod page!
Learn more about the CAELi Institute.
Visit our bookshop.org page to support CAELi and purchase books mentioned on the show!
Become a CAELi member or renew your membership!
Love the show? Support our work with a financial contribution or book donation.
Follow CAELi on FB, IG, and YouTube.
Read a full transcript of this episode.
Song “Wake Up” used with permission by The E-Block Band.
*****
Episode timestamps (conversation recorded June 2023):
00:52 – Welcome, Lars! Lars found astrology when he was pursuing a degree in guitar performance. (And check out his band, Karmic Ashes!)
02:32 – The first astrology-reading connection that Lars made was via the Dane Rudhyar archival project, which included info on traditional and modern planetary rulerships. This led him to Rudhyar’s book The Pulse of Life: New Dynamics in Astrology, which he devoured in two days! Lars loved how he understood the signs so deeply after reading this text.
07:24 – If Lars were in Antarctica and could only bring three books, what would they be? First up: The Lunation Cycle: A Key to the Understanding of Personality by Dane Rudhyar. (You’re probably looking at the Moon a lot if you’re stranded, right?) This book captures something profound about cycles and time.
08:27 – Next, Lars would take along A To Z Horoscope Maker and Delineator by Llewellyn George. This is a modern, twentieth-century pick with roots in traditional astrology.
18:54 – Visit our sponsor: The AstroMagia Online Conference hosted by JD Kelley (November 16-18, 2023)!
19:53 – Finally, Lars would carry Persian Nativities by Abu Bakr al-Hasib (the Dr. Dykes translation), because he finds insights in this text not found elsewhere!
28:52 – Which books for beginners would Lars recommend? First, the previously mentioned A To Z Horoscope Maker and Delineator. Also, The Practice of Astrology as a Technique in Human Understanding by Rudhyar because it’s short and sweet. And two by John Frawley: The Real Astrology and The Real Astrology Applied. (Also, Frawley’s book on horary astrology if that’s of interest to you!)
34:18 – Thanks for listening to Within Orb! If you love the show, please help support it at no cost to you: Follow or subscribe wherever you listen, rate it five stars, or write a happy review! And if you’d like to become a CAELi member or support our work with a contribution of any amount, we’d be delighted – thanks!
Show notes by Jen Braun, JJ Boots Productions LLC.

Monday Oct 09, 2023
014 | Maeg Keane: Plants as Astrological Teachers
Monday Oct 09, 2023
Monday Oct 09, 2023
Astrologer and herbalist Maeg Keane joins host Jenn Zahrt from Salem, MA in a conversation centered around plant and planet devotion work and how to bring the stars closer! Maeg offers a wonderful list of books (including one that is yet to be born) and also sinks into the power of words through hymn. Plus: emulating the ancients, star omens, and drinking rose tea to cozy up to Venus!
View full show notes at our Within Orb pod page!
Learn more about the CAELi Institute.
Visit our bookshop.org page to support CAELi and purchase books mentioned on the show!
Become a CAELi member or renew your membership!
Love the show? Support our work with a financial contribution or book donation.
Follow CAELi on FB, IG, and YouTube.
Transcripts available upon request.
Song “Wake Up” used with permission by The E-Block Band.
*****
Episode timestamps (conversation recorded August 2023):
00:51 – Maeg kicks us off with a big, “Thank you, Aurora!” The first astrology book they ever read was Lesbian Love Signs: An Astrological Guide to Women Loving Women by Aurora. The introduction of synastry and how to better understand our partners through astrology was a big plus for Maeg.
07:11 – The first book that Maeg would save from their burning house would be Babylonian Star-lore: An Illustrated Guide to the Star-lore and Constellations of Ancient Babylonia by Gavin White. Maeg reaches for this book every time they sit down to write!
14:55 – Next, Maeg mentions Astronomicon by Marcus Manilius, because they love his inclusion for the guardians of the signs. (Maeg gets extra points for here for calling Manilius a beloved weirdo – LOL!)
22:08 – Visit our sponsor: JD Kelley’s AstroMagia Online Conference (November 16-18, 2023)!
23:06 – An embryo book! Maeg’s third selection is a book that is yet to be published: Kristin Mathis’s spirit-led work on the Orphic Hymns. (Visit Kristin’s Substack page.) Maeg loves this one, which is like a prayer book; tune in to hear Maeg read the hymn to the Moon. (And we can all look forward to Revelore Press publishing this one!)
37:23 – Which books for beginners would Maeg recommend? Chani Nicholas gets the nod, with her wonderful primer You Were Born for This: Astrology for Radical Self-Acceptance. It’s one to whet the appetite without getting bogged down in astro-jargon.
39:38 – Find Maeg at https://www.third-sister.com/. They are also on Instagram (link on their site). And be sure to sign up for Maeg's newsletter!
40:23 – Thanks for listening to Within Orb! If you love the show, please help support it at no cost to you: Follow or subscribe wherever you listen, rate it five stars, or write a happy review! And if you’d like to become a CAELi member or support our work with a contribution of any amount, we’d be delighted – thanks!
Show notes by Jen Braun, JJ Boots Productions LLC.

Monday Oct 02, 2023
013 | Matt Trease: Poetic Inspiration, Star Work, & Paying Attention
Monday Oct 02, 2023
Monday Oct 02, 2023
Astrologer and poet Matt Trease joins host Jenn Zahrt from Seattle, lyrically encouraging us to take note of the world around us and test astrology against our lived experience! Matt and Jenn dive into a variety of astro topics, from open mic nights, to Chandra symbols, to Saturn-Pluto times, to engaging with ancient texts, to omen-divination in early Babylon. All that, plus: hatching escape plans during a twelfth-house year, divination and getting oriented on our own personal maps, and… remember the TV show LOST??
View full show notes at our Within Orb pod page!
Learn more about the CAELi Institute.
Visit our bookshop.org page to support CAELi and purchase books mentioned on the show!
Become a CAELi member or renew your membership!
Love the show? Support our work with a financial contribution or book donation.
Follow CAELi on FB, IG, and YouTube.
Transcripts available upon request.
Song “Wake Up” used with permission by The E-Block Band.
*****
Episode timestamps (conversation recorded July 2023):
00:31 – Matt kicks us off with one of his bibliomantically-composed poems! Thanks, Matt!
05:37 – The first astro book that Matt ever read was Inside Degrees: Developing Your Soul Biography Using the Chandra Symbols by Ellias Lonsdale.
08:52 – The first book that Matt would bring to a desert island would be Carmen Astrologicum by Dorotheus of Sidon, translated by Benjamin Dykes. The mystery of the elements and having a set of mitigating factors is what draws Matt to this one.
10:48 – Next, Matt would bring Persian Nativities III: Abu Ma'shar on Solar Revolutions by Abu Ma'shar, also translated by Benjamin Dykes. There is a richness to this book, and explanations of the symbolic repetitions of time make this green text a winner!
13:27 – Finally, Matt would pack An Astrological Mandala: The Cycle of Transformations and Its 360 Symbolic Phases by Dane Rudhyar. This hard-to-find classic is all about the Sabian symbols, and a great resource.
15:17 – Visit our sponsor: Rod Suskin School of Astrology!
16:06 – Which books for beginners would Matt recommend? First, he suggests getting a journal of some kind (via Chani Nicholas or the Honeycomb Collective, for example), and tracking how astrology works in your own life. He also suggests picking up Bruce Scofield’s The Nature of Astrology: History, Philosophy, and the Science of Self-Organizing Systems. This recent book gives a good framework for how astrology is both art and science, and how we need to come back to our own lived experience. The bibliography is great, too! Finally, Cosmos and Psyche by Richard Tarnas – especially the non-jargon intro, which offers a philosophical framework for astrology.
24:10 – Any final books to share? For traditional techniques, Matt mentions Demetra George’s most recent tome, Ancient Astrology in Theory and Practice.
28:41 – Find Matt at https://www.intransitastrology.com. Learn about poetry readings on offer at https://www.marginshift.org/. And to find his poetry, he suggests searching “Matt Trease poet.”
23:42 – Thanks for listening to Within Orb! If you love the show, please help support it at no cost to you: Follow or subscribe wherever you listen, rate it five stars, or write a happy review! And if you’d like to become a CAELi member or support our work with a contribution of any amount, we’d be delighted – thanks!
Show notes by Jen Braun, JJ Boots Productions LLC.

Meet your host!
Jenn Zahrt PhD is an author, artist, publisher, poet, translator, and teacher of cultural astronomy and astrology. She researches the many forms of astrology emergent across human cultures past and present, with a special focus on early twentieth century German culture.
In 2012 she completed her doctoral thesis, The Astrological Imaginary in Early Twentieth Century Germany, at the University of California, Berkeley. From 2017–2022 she was appointed as an Honorary Research Fellow at the Sophia Centre for the Study of Cosmology in Culture at the University of Wales Trinity Saint David, after receiving her MA in Cultural Astronomy and Astrology (2015).
She has taught and lectured domestically and internationally in places such as Canada, the United Kingdom, and Germany. She’s an emerita of the board of trustees for Kepler College, as well as the Association for Young Astrologers. Her volunteer work for the community continues with her 2023 appointment as a Board Director for the International Society for Astrological Research (ISAR).
Zahrt is the founder of Revelore Press, the creative director of the Sophia Centre Press, and the deputy editor of the peer-reviewed journal Culture and Cosmos. In 2021 she founded the Celestial Arts Education Library Institute in Olympia, WA, where she currently lives.

Celestial Arts Education Library Institute
CAELi is a global, virtual community with a brick & mortar base of operations and a deep passion for studying astrology, cosmology, and starlore in its many forms.
Located in the ancestral land of the Coast Salish people, the Nisqually and Cowlitz tribes, CAELi was founded as a member-supported, non-circulating research library in 2021. As a cultural institute, your membership supports essential research, critical conversations, and accessible workspaces for the astrological community.
Onsite and virtual members can access thousands of books, journals, and newsletters, some of which can only be found in a handful of locations throughout the world. We encourage our members to explore new realms of celestial arts research.
Thank you for joining us – we’re delighted to have you within orb!